Now is the time to get another broadband provider in Hull

[hullnet]

Anyone who lives in Hull and wish their was some other broadband provider in Hull.

We'll I'm stepping up to make it happen.

If you are interested in changing supplier there maybe a way. If we all club together and approach one company we will have more clout as a collective.

Sign up and I'll do the rest....

www.hullnet.co.uk

[stormy]

And if we don't want Sky?

[Fastethernet]

FYI

From: ***
Sent: 17 September 2007 10:57
To: Murdoch, James
Subject: Sky

 

Dear Mr Murdoch,

 

I recently wrote to Sky to raise an issue I feel passionately about, please see enclosed letter;

 

"Sky Subscribers Services Ltd

4 Mackintosh Road ,

Kirkton Campus,

Livingston ,

West Lothian ,

EH54 7BW

*

Account Number: ***

04/09/07

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing to you regarding your recent correspondence about a price increase for my Sky Digital subscription.

 

As you may or may not know KCOM have a complete monopoly over telecommunications within my area (BT will not install landlines) and as such I am unable to utilise any such services from you. I would like to draw your attention to your recent correspondence;

 

          "Nobody ever wants to pay more – we know that – but we have provided new and enhanced services that will make Sky more valuable because you'll get more. For example:

 

    * We've made sure Sky TV customers can now get FREE UK evening and weekend landline phone calls with Sky Talk Freetime.
    * We launched FREE Sky broadband (subject to availability and a £40 activation fee) so that you can get more value from us, hassle-free. You can get broadband, telephone and television at a reasonable price, all from Sky."

 

You cannot provide either of these services to me although you do expect me to pay extra for them. As a long term loyal customer of yours (over six years) I find these particular circumstances unpalatable. A proportion of the subscription I pay will fund these services which you cannot provide, that which follows logically is a proportional reduction in my subscription or some other appropriate offer of compensation.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

*** ***"

 

Unfortunately I was sent a stock response (Ref: ***/***). My main concern is your coverage of 'Sky Talk' and 'Sky Broadband'. My question is when will these services be available within my area?

 

Since Sky is moving into the telecoms market, offering broadband to non Sky subscribers and unbundling local loops, Hull and the surrounding area would be an ideal location to trial these new services. There is a large base of subscribers all very keen to see competition within the market and would be glad of the opportunity to have a choice in their broadband provider.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

*** ***



*******************************************************


Ref: ***/***
 
Dear ***
 
Customer Account Number: ***
 
Thanks for your email addressed to James Murdoch, which has been passed for my attention.
 
Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy about the availability of Sky Broadband and Sky Talk in your area, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.
 
As you're aware, in order for us to provide either of these services the customer must first of all have a BT telephone line installed.  I understand that currently the only telecommunication or broadband supplier in Hull is KCOM.  The net result of this is that Sky is unable to expand its Sky Broadband network or enable customers to have Sky Talk in Hull.
 
Due to the restriction of BT's own network in Hull, this directly affects our own services.  From what I understand the copper used by KCOM in their telephone lines is different from what BT use.  Accordingly, this disparity creates a logistical issue for BT in their choice to move their network into Hull.  As you can appreciate, Sky is unable to directly influence BT's commercial decision to increase their network.
 
In response to your comments that as we're unable to supply broadband or Sky Talk in Hull you believe your subscription should be proportionately reduced, unfortunately I'm unable to agree to this.  Our Sky Broadband and Sky Talk services are funded by customers who pay for these services.  I appreciate fully that you would like to take advantage of these services, but the availability is subject to customers having a BT telephone line.
 
We want all our customers to receive the best service possible and I'm sorry that I've been unable to provide a more favourable response.  If I can be of any further assistance, please get back to me on the above email address.
 
Kind regards
 
Sheila Heeps
Customer Relations


********************************************************************

Dear Ms Heeps

Thank you for the correspondence.

I am a little confused about your response though. It was my understanding Sky would be offering their own local loop unbundled ADSL service, this process would involve the installation of Sky's own equipment within telephone exchanges. Surely Hull would be top priority for a trial of this service given that currently Sky cannot offer any telephone/ADSL services within this area?

Kind regards

***


*********************************************************************

Ref: ***/***
 
Dear ***
 
Customer Account Number: ***
 
Thanks for getting back to me.
 
In order for us to install our network equipment in an exchange there must the infrastructure to support this, which is not just limited to the installation of equipment in the exchange.  As advised below, my understanding is that BT would have problems installing their telephony equipment due to the difference in copper wires used by KCOM and BT. 
 
Furthermore, when we process a broadband order, we send the customer's details to BT.  BT then go through a number of pre-order checks to confirm that the order can go ahead.  For example, BT checks the telephone number is registered to the correct postcode, the MAC code (if one is used) is valid, that if it's a migration from one ISP to another that there isn't a cease pending on the line, etc.
 
The systems we use to process a broadband order communicates with BT's systems, whether for an ADSL or LLU order.  This is one of the reasons why the terms and conditions of Sky Broadband is that the customer must have a BT landline.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem feasible for Sky to install our LLU network in a non-BT exchange due to the impact on the systems we use to put through a broadband order.  We rely in BT for two aspects of providing broadband, the first is the exchange/engineering side of things, and the other is the systems used for ordering.
 
I'm sorry that it doesn't look as though we will be able to offer either our broadband or telephony services to you in Hull, however I'd like to thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact us.
 
Kind regards
 
Sheila Heeps
Customer Relations
 

[The Dominator]

Sorry  - united we stand, divided we fall. 

I for one do not want to replace KCom with Sky, what I want is choice and a level playing field for residents and Business's of Hull and the area. 
I don't want to see the end of KCom, I still think they will play a big part in the future of Hull and they are a local employer and business (no excuse for taking the piss out of Hull for such a long time!).

What is needed is different approach and competition, the size of Hull (and district) should mean we have at least 4 providers in this City - what we have is one.

Your argument (on your website) about reducing the pricing is flawed (please read this forum in depth for the full answers) and is no guarantee that Sky will arrive on our door step any time soon, they will still need to use KComs lines and pay KCom money for that service.

You would be better off joining us and combining our voices to bring about a level playing field for services and competition to Hull and district.  Please don't be offended, for you are obviously pro-active (something we need) and we applaud you for that, but we need a common voice and recognition - something this site has been advocating (and achieving) for some time.

[Hobbisbang]

Hear hear 

_{Anyone got a light im making a run for the exchange !!!}

[The Dominator]

Thanks Hobbisbang - by the way, you can use my Cigar stub (aka Hannibal from the A-Team) to light that bomb ....

[mrX]

I'll probs get slated for this, but I've gotta say its all been done before, petitions to the government, letters to the HDM, the KUG, another website isn't gonna make any difference, for one the look and design of it doesn't really give much confidence. If providers don't wanna move in then they're not going to. I think Fastethernet's correspondence with Sky says it all, its a shame but it looks how things are gonna be. Interesting point in those emails about how Hull peeps are losing out by not being able to take advantage of the offers of phone/BB/TV that everyone else gets. Would be nice if sky even gave a token gesture of throwing in an extra selection of TV channels for example 3 instead of 2 for £17 per month.

[hullnet]

Sorry  - united we stand, divided we fall. 

I'm not offended, debate is healthy yes? 

I understand your argument, and know it would not be easy for any provider to step into Hull, But I stand by my position. I understand where you are coming from but I'm looking at it from a different point of view.

I doubt sky would give up the opportunity to get 100s of customers onto their service in a demographic that
has little current competition, with the opportunity to move some customers from just broadband and Phone to broadband phone and Sky TV. (this being the main driver for Sky lets face it)

Once we have one setup and using Kingston's lines the rest should follow yes? "Kingston Communications welcome competition" and I for one will be doing my best to secure some

petitions to the government, letters to the HDM, the KUG, another website isn't gonna make any difference

You send 100's of names, addresses, and phone numbers to one company and say these are all potential customers who have expressed an interest in your service they would be fools not to look at it.

your attached letters

Again a single user asking a question, is not going to cut it as far as I can see.

http://www.hullnet.co.uk another way for broadband in hull

[hullnet]

And if we don't want Sky?

You will have to wait like everyone else is for "something" to happen. 

[hullnet]

for one the look and design of it doesn't really give much confidence.

Simple is what I was aiming for, I guess confidence will show though in the amount of names I get 

[dylan]

Hi hullnet (?Alan),

First of all, welcome to karooforums.net - I'm glad you found us 

You have my respect for taking the time to build a website that tells people about the problems we have in Hull. The more people who take it upon themselves to try and do something about the situation here, the greater exposure we give the problem.

I've read the outline of your idea, and although it's definitely sounds sensible in concept, we've found in experience that it's not quite that simple. Unfortunately there seem to be certain technical/economic problems in delivering a service over KC's network and this is really turning providers off. I think even if a thousand users wrote to Sky that it wouldn't change their mind.

We have written to quite a few suppliers with details of the thousands of signatories to the prime ministers petition, details of media exposure and the potential of tens and thousands of users ready to sign up but we mostly meet a stone wall.

http://www.karooforums.net/wiki/karoo_alternatives/choice_ambassadors

Now, that said however, I think you should press ahead with your project. If you don't do it you will never know if it worked or not and at the end of the day what have you got to lose?

Keep in touch with us please, and keep an eye on the forums. We're also working hard to resolve the situation and are always trying to apply pressure where it is needed. I'd like to think that karooforums.net can be used as a place where people can meet and talk about KC, not just a place for announcing new projects 

You might want to read around some of the technical threads on KC infrastructure etc.

And again, welcome!

Dyls

[hullnet]

Hi hullnet (?Alan)

Thanks for the warm welcome Dylan, the site did take some finding (found it on the Wiki for Karoo in the end)

Glad you think it is an idea worth pursuing, I'll press ahead and keep you guys in the loop.

I understand this is my first visit to the site and cant wait to checkout the banter about Kcom (I am doing now!) sorry if I steam rollered in without checking it first but I got a bit excited about my project.

I work in IT for a major Blue Chip, PC's servers, systems, project management that sort of thing, I also dabble a bit on the web the site took me a few days to create (and yes it looks like it!!)

If you can use me for anything just ask, I'll support other projects in anyway I can.

Spelling and punctuation not being my strong points 

Regards Alan Dalgairns

[dylan]

Hi hullnet (?Alan)

I work in IT for a major Blue Chip, PC's servers, systems, project management that sort of thing, I also dabble a bit on the web the site took me a few days to create (and yes it looks like it!!)

There are a few IT people on the forum so you're amongst good company. Do you work in Hull then or would you rather not say?

[hullnet]

Just over the water on the "dark side" I have to cross the bridge everyday (but dont get me started on that!!) another company with the abbreviation KC

[hullnet]

I've got an articale on www.thisisull.com chick it out... 

http://www.thisisull.com/articles08/alandalgairns/1605434081_alanbroadband.html