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Author Topic: KC/Karoo Bundles  (Read 5471 times)
Project Novo
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2010, 10:00:32 am »


Ofcom have recently relaxed the reigns on BT Retail in the rest of the UK in permitting BT to offer more aggressively priced service through bundling lines, calls and broadband services to residential customers. The customer has the freedom to select a bundled option (the more you buy the less you pay) and is not "forced bundled" (tied) by KC that forces customers to pay for local calls from KC at an additional £3.50 per line per month whether they make a call or not of which also has the effect of removing all competition in the market for local calls.     
 
If Ofcom were to allow KC to offer similar "bundled" packages, whilst initially being good for the consumer, would have a considerable long term negative effect on consumer choice since by reducing charges without the precesence of any existing competition in an existing Monopoly where Significant Market Power (SMP) already exists would further minimise any possibility of any other Commuicarions Provider seeking to enter the Hull market in direct competition to KC and harm whatever limited competition already exists.
 
If Ofcom are considering permitting KC to bundle services,Ofcom MUST conduct a new investigation into the individual markets for telephone calls, lines and broadband markets in the Hull area. If KC still are still considered to have SMP (Significant Market Power) in any of these markets bundling cannot be permitted.

I believe this is a cyinicle attempt by KC to get customers to sign long term contracts to help prevent and restrict competition in the Hull market for the provision of broadband, lines and calls services.
 
Fibrestream / Nextgenus should write to Ofcom to raise this issue formally with the regulator and make their position abundantly clear that the removal on the existing conditions on KC should not be permitted on the grounds that KC continue to possess SMP in all 3 markets and No Communication Provider has access to the KC telephone line at the wholesale level.
 
Fibrestream/ Nextgenus should only ever agree to the removal of the existing conditions placed on KC unless the equivalent of Openreaches WLR3 services were made available from KC in the Hull area whereby CP's were able to compete directly with KC for the provision of fixed telephony service having obtained "Equivalence" with all providers that wish to compete in the Hull market with KC.
 
If Ofcom were to orchestrate this, this would fully benefit consumers in terms of not just providing consumers with competitively priced services but would also provide consumers with a number of alternative choice's with a selection of providers whereby endusers can choose their supplier based on price and service.   
 
Ofcom should now write to all CP's to solicit their views about the Hull Market.


 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 02:32:02 pm by Project Novo »  Report to moderator    212.183.140.48  
 
 
 
stormy
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    Re: KC Being allowed to bundle line, calls and broadband services
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 02:59:14 pm » Quote  

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http://karooforums.net/index.php/topic,1106.0.html

As I wrote there:

I guess at the end of the day, fixed line competition in Hull is very unlikely to happen, something Ofcom recognises in the consultation. So the bottom line is, what will we save?

I can understand why its a bad thing for competition, but how likely is fixed line competition ever to come to Hull, never is my estimation and it seems Ofcom agrees.
 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 03:01:35 pm by stormy »  Report to moderator    Logged  
 
 
 
Project Novo
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     Re: KC Being allowed to bundle line, calls and broadband services
« Reply #2 on: Today at 10:55:04 am » Quote Modify Remove  

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Hi Stormy

CP's like Nextgenus DO want to come into Hull (amonst many others). Its just that Ofcom and KC do not make it easy as it will be the end of KC if this happens.

Cobus Communications resell telephone lines from Nexus Telecommunications whereby KC were forced to "Wholesale" YES "Wholesale"  lines to Nexus because KC illegally forced Nexus out of the market for local telephone calls when KC forced every business (excluding orgnisations such as the Council !!!!!) to take local calls from them at a supplmentary charge of £3.50 per month PER LINE.

Under KC's Ofcom oversight this is anti competitative under UK Competition Law of which KC has regularly flouted. Nexus were going to force Ofcom into an investigation (Which would have found KC guilty of market abuse) but decided to take wholesale line rental from KC. This is not widely publised and is something that KC do not wish to have openly broadcast.

PN

            
 
 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 06:09:01 pm by Project Novo » Logged
mrX
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2010, 06:16:57 pm »

PN, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with this issue, I don't think I've seen you wright anything else on these boards, does seem to be getting a bit repetitive.
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Project Novo
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2010, 06:30:05 pm »

Hi Mr X

Do you work for KC?

Do you want to have better services, more choice and better prices for the provision on services or not?

My so called obsession is bourne out by the lack of support of Hull people that appear not to care about this issue - those that dont work for KC that is.

Unless you start to care the likes of Fibrestream, Nextgenus, Quickline and Airnet will get wipped out before they are allowed to fully establish their business models to help better services and cheaper prices.

I have no problem with KC as a provider - good engineers. However, if Hull doesent have a competitive telecoms market enterprises will not invest in the City. I have consulted for several LARGE enterprises who would have brought several hundred jobs to the City but because there was no competition for fixed line services or equivalent services availiable from BT ALL companies decided not to redeploy their staff.

I am dealing with clients that want to move out of Hull for this very reason  - High Internet bandwidth prices,poorer services and no competition.
 
PN
       
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mrX
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« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2010, 08:56:08 am »

I'm all for competition, that's not what I was getting at, its just every post I see from you it will mention the 'illegal' inclusive local calls in the talk packages, or the deal nexus struck to sell KC lines, it just gets a bit same old from you that's all, a lot of your posts just go over the same point, without bringing anything new to the discussion. Its good to see new providers coming into the city like airnet and nextgenus, but as has been mentioned before as its unlikely another fixed line provider is looking to come into the city, if KC can offer new deals to their consumers and give better value for money, then why not, its one of the things people criticise them for anyway.
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buster_uk
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2010, 12:03:45 pm »

KC may well offer a better pricing policy in the future, but a dire service will always be a dire service.
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adamr8965
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2010, 03:24:00 pm »

I like the karoo service, am i the only person that does?
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I live in BT land and have a choice so KC have to treat me properly
hullnet
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2010, 05:58:55 pm »

I like the karoo service, am i the only person that does?

I'd have to ask why you like it?

Is it because they have you over a barrel and charge you for an a very limited service with unacceptable "acceptable usage policies" , then reinvest all that money you give them into there other services outside of Hull such as Eclipse, knowing they don't have to develop Hull much because you have no choice.

Maybe you dont use the internet much for things like online gaming, renting films, watching streaming HD video  such as Iplayer or any service that requires more than a toothpick size bandwidth. If so you are probably right they are OK.  Roll Eyes
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bashdabish
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2010, 08:01:36 pm »

I like the karoo service, am i the only person that does?
Maybe you dont use the internet much for things like online gaming, renting films, watching streaming HD video  such as Iplayer or any service that requires more than a toothpick size bandwidth. If so you are probably right they are OK.  Roll Eyes

To be fair, I do all those things without any problems.
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hullnet
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2010, 08:56:16 am »

To be fair, I do all those things without any problems.

All of them? when you stream HD Iplayer that works all the way through an hour program at 6pm? and how long did it take you to download a HD video rental of around 5gb?

But I guess if you can't answer these, i'd understand.
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bashdabish
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2010, 01:32:54 pm »

To be fair, I do all those things without any problems.

All of them? when you stream HD Iplayer that works all the way through an hour program at 6pm? and how long did it take you to download a HD video rental of around 5gb?

But I guess if you can't answer these, i'd understand.

You seem to have a terrible attitube. Yes I can buffer iPlayer HD at 6pm no problem. You cleary don't want to hear it but there you go. Last HD download I did took about 50mins. Not sure what else you want me to say.
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Scotty
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« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2010, 01:55:38 pm »

I dont understand the argument going on here, aslong as people are happy with thier providers they are currently with, thats all that matters.

KC does have some issues which people may not like, but it depends on personal oppinion and personal useage of the internet to whether they effect you in a negative way.

Back on the subject of KC news, anyone heard anything more about the bundle prices?

@hullnet - think you can send me a message of some updated speedtest & pingtest results of AirNet? - thanks
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 01:57:57 pm by xScotteYx » Logged

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hullnet
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« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2010, 02:19:19 pm »

You seem to have a terrible attitube. Yes I can buffer iPlayer HD at 6pm no problem. You cleary don't want to hear it but there you go. Last HD download I did took about 50mins. Not sure what else you want me to say.

I dont like been taken for a ride, and that is what KC has done to the majority of users as far as I'm concerned. Glad you are happy with your service. I want the right to choose and in my opinion KC are actively trying to prevent competition.

If you ask them where they invest the money that we pay them for the crap service (most of us) get its not in Hull, they invest it in the national business, yes we get a token gesture every now and then, but it will never improve the service dramatically.

With the likes of Virgin offering 50mb broadband, BT rolling out FTTH were does that leave Hull? KC should be on the forefront of this, with the ability to provide next generation services to the people of Hull which would drive business and new technology business into our City such as Cloud computing, Utility Computing, Virutulisation,  Data Centres. Hull could be at the centre of this if KC would properly invest in the city.

So yes, I'm pissed with this crap company who have done nothing but hold back the cities phone and broadband revolution, i've seen companies leave Hull because of KC's ridiculous hold on the city due to its backward plans for growth. Schools and other businesses pulling in there own fibre, just so they can get a competitive deal.

Go into any Witherspoons in the country and on the back of the menu it says "Free Broadband Available (Except in Hull)" were excluded from everything! and I blame Kingston Communications, KCom, KC what ever they are calling themselves this week.  
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 05:55:49 pm by hullnet » Logged
dylan
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2010, 02:26:51 pm »

.@hullnet adamr8965 lives in a BT/KC area so he can choose either. This perhaps explains why he gets a better service.
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bashdabish
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« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2010, 02:33:49 pm »

I never once questioned your motive. I took offence to the fact you implied I was either lying or too stupid to judge the service I am receiving.

The downside to this forum is that all speed complaints are dealt as one generic issue. In reality, joe bloggs who is 4km away from the exchange on max option1 is never going to get good performance but geoff who is on Karoo mid and 0.5km away will get 18mbps and do what they like.

I hear your gripe and that is fine, no problem. I just ain't going to adapt my speedtest and performance to suit your complaints.
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hullnet
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« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2010, 03:01:42 pm »

I hear your gripe and that is fine, no problem. I just ain't going to adapt my speedtest and performance to suit your complaints.

Agreed, Sorry if I came off as offensive, I just find it hard to believe you can download 5gig in 50 minutes at 6pm. would mean you need have a permanent 10mb connection with no overheads or shaping on your 13mb connection.
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